How a Small American Company Sold $100,000 of Intercoolers in 2 Days.

"chato" (chato)
12/12/2014 at 14:46 • Filed to: Subaru, WRX, Legacy Gt, LGT, TMIC, Intercooler, Grimmspeed, American Manufacturing

100

In August of 2013, Minneapolis-based performance tuner !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! started unassuming threads on both !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! titled "GrimmSpeed 08+ WRX/LGT Top Mount Intercooler - Any Interest". Those threads went on to accumulate over 110,000 page views and north of 1400 posts between them. These aren't huge numbers in the world of modern internet virality, but what these threads achieved, most notably, was the pre-sale of $129,000+ worth of intercoolers in just two days.

Those familiar with the EJ255 platform know that the stock Subaru intercoolers were small, crimped together, and prone to eventual failure, especially when pushed beyond stock boost level (who would ever want to do that?).

This has fueled a healthy market for aftermarket intercoolers for both the 05-09 Legacy GT's and the 08-14 WRX's which share a platform. Options varied from moderately expensive pieces with so-so fitiment, to Chinese knock-offs that that took acrobatic qualities to install right. Many units rubbed on master cylinders, or sat crooked in the engine bay, triggering the OCD in even some of the most aesthetically challenged.

All along the benchmark unit was the Process West, a boutique part imported from Australia, that commands more than $1000 when equipped with the proper splitter to mate to that trademark Subaru hood scoop. For schlubs like me who have the much rarer 05-09 Legacy GT, the proper splitters dried up years ago. An intercooler with a bad splitter is like a Ferrari on $75 all season radials, kind of defeats the purpose.

So in stepped Grimmspeed, with a proposal to solve the problem once and for all, harnessing their well-known "enthusiast-focused" R&D process to create a product that solved all the problems with existing designs. They began by soliciting input, for months entertaining questions from the legions of WRX and LGT owners, all along sprinkling in teaser photos of porn-like weld shots, and core components.

Grimmspeed walked us laymen through the amazingly complex process of moving a new product through concept, design, and manufacturing in a way that is unique. At points, this micro-approach had followers weary of the tease, complaining that the project wasn't adhering to the originally planned schedule, as if Grimmspeed had entered into a contract to produce these by some arbitrary deadline.

But on Wednesday, Grimmspeed released "Group Buy" threads on both NASIOC and LegacyGT.com (for those not familiar, these are forum threads that offer discounts for pre-ordering faithful). In this case they offered a 20% discount off MSRP, a thoughtful reward for those of us who underwent more than a year of torture watching the development of this product.

In the end, all that close attention had commanded the markets ear, and those threads went like wild fire. As of midday 12/12/14, there were 143 buyers signed up on the two threads, sales amounting to of $120,000 in just 48 hours. Not shabby for a small American company from Minneapolis.

DISCUSSION (100)

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > chato
12/12/2014 at 14:53

Holy duck farts I need to do something like this and quick.

Racescort666 > chato
12/12/2014 at 14:54

That's awesome. I can attest to how painfully slow developin a product can sometimes be. Good that it worked out for them.

Audi-os, Amigos! > chato
12/12/2014 at 14:56

This is a great write-up! Super interesting process!

Also I think you mean "laymen" instead of "laments."

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > chato
12/12/2014 at 15:05

The guys at Grimmspeed are awesome! They are very active on the FT86Club forum, and are incredibly detailed when it comes to testing, development, and sharing information with enthusiasts. For development of their intake system for the FR-S/BRZ they started a thread to extensively test the stock system at all major points. They shared all the results of their testing, and thoroughly explained the results. They even concluded that the stock system is incredibly well designed, and that improving on it was not easy. It took about a year longer than other manufacturers for them to come final come out with a production version, because they were so precise in the development and wanted to match stock air flow rates.

I originally jumped on the pre-order, but ended up changing my mind and going with just a drop-in filter; because the stock intake system is so well designed that gains from a new aftermarket intake are hardly more (often equal to) just a drop-in filter replacement. However, I was very impressed with Grimmspeed's commitment to working hard to develop quality parts, and their dedication to not just their customers but the enthusiast community as a whole.

Kate's Dirty Sister > chato
12/12/2014 at 15:35

Great write up, very interesting. Just remove that take my money image and this should be ready for the front page

chato > Kate's Dirty Sister
12/12/2014 at 15:56

thanks for the tips and encouragement

chato > Audi-os, Amigos!
12/12/2014 at 15:56

thanks for the catch.

JDIGGS > chato
12/12/2014 at 16:26

Grimmspeed is pretty cool. I am still running a pre production external waste gate kit from them. Also use their mc brace. Believe it or not the MC moves away from you when you brake without grimmspeeds part.

JDIGGS > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet
12/12/2014 at 16:27

Yeah it's because this is what they do for a living. They have had tons of parts for subarus, and all they do is develop parts.

Basically it'd probably be better for you just to hope to win the lottery, as it's more likely.

signintoburnerlol > chato
12/12/2014 at 17:32

Grimmspeed makes some great stuff, though i seem to be one of the few that has had problems with their products...

Though I've always been that way. Anytime i buy something that always has great reviews, i get the lemon.

bee1000 > chato
12/12/2014 at 19:55

This is the kind of thing I love about today's car-enthusiast world: A manufacturer makes a good car that attracts a devoted following, forums spring up to bring those enthusiast owners together, small companies spring up to serve that community, and the community in turn supports the best of those companies.

As a Mini owner who has purchased from small companies everything from a supercharger pulley to a stainless steel shift knob to a powdercoated aluminum gauge holder to a custom circuit that makes my windows auto-up, I can say it's great to be involved in a community like that.

GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo > chato
12/13/2014 at 00:02

Nice to see this type of support for small companies that put a ton of time and money in the r&d of the product.

Reminds me of the bated breath the E46 community is waiting with for Evolve Tunings Eventuri intake. Its supposed to give the normal intake power hikes but sounds closer to the ridiculously priced CSL airbox.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > JDIGGS
12/13/2014 at 11:35

No no just something in general that a large grouo of people want or want in on in an almost overnight capacity.

In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you > bee1000
12/13/2014 at 18:44

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE, YOU POWDERED YOUR KNOB.

elek > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet
12/13/2014 at 19:44

$100k+ in sales does not equal $100k in profit

E30Joe drives a Subaru > chato
12/13/2014 at 20:06

I've been to GS's shop many times.

Very small operation.

average_bear > chato
12/13/2014 at 20:53

I've been to GrimmSpeed and I know Matt quite well. They're a well run, forward thinking company who strives to keep as much of their manufacturing as possible in the States. They run a very good business and have top quality parts. This is a huge success for them and I know that it has been long awaited. Great to see a company keeping R&D / Production in the States, while still offering a competitive price.

discount sushi > bee1000
12/13/2014 at 20:59

I never knew about the auto up circuit, that is awesome. Totally getting one for ours now.

SpiroAgnew > chato
12/13/2014 at 21:04

love seeing grimmspeed on here! Awesome guys from my hometown!

bee1000 > discount sushi
12/13/2014 at 21:10

If you have a first-gen Mini, do a search for Ian Cull auto-up circuit. I don't know what's available for later models.

bee1000 > In a Mini; let them mock me as My Mini Countryman is higher than you
12/13/2014 at 21:12

Actually, my knob is... uh... bead-blasted...

Ch0taku > chato
12/13/2014 at 21:26

i too followed that thread on nasioc. if only they had the tmic available before my dyno tune last year, i would have been a lot happier.. the other after market tmic i bought instead was just horrible. exactly what you stated. fitment was too tight. and even if you were to install it, it would look slightly crooked.. only downside of GS selling this new tmic out now is now im going to have trouble selling my existing tmic.. lol

jshaw6000 > JDIGGS
12/13/2014 at 21:33

I'm going to install mine tonight!! Can't wait to test it out afterwards

rex > chato
12/13/2014 at 21:39

FYI, numerous independent tests have shown the GS intercooler is actually less efficient at all power levels than the stock STI intercooler. I would go with pretty much any other intercooler over this one.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > elek
12/13/2014 at 21:44

But early sales covers a lot of cost that do not require marketing dollars. If they did not go straight out of the box with those sales, they would have to spend money to market them and the profit per unit would be even smaller.

chato > rex
12/13/2014 at 22:19

not familiar with their STI unit's efficacy. And this is a very different design than an STI unit. Having watched the design thread closely, and being intimately familiar with the shortcomings of the current offerings, I doubt this will result in a drop in power..

stoke > chato
12/13/2014 at 22:34

I have their TGV deletes on the EJ205 in my coupe and their license plate relocation kit on my '15 WRX. They make solid stuff.

desertdog5051 > elek
12/13/2014 at 23:28

$129,000+ sales can equal those profits if your costs are contained.

signinsrlame > elek
12/14/2014 at 01:35

nowhere did the author claim it did

DipodomysDeserti > chato
12/14/2014 at 13:40

I ordered a few things from Grimspeed when I had my WRX and everything was too notch. Their firewall brace was a very high quality and well designed piece of kit.

wabbalosthiskey > rex
12/14/2014 at 15:23

But they don't blow up, which I think is the actual problem they were trying to solve in the fist place

Kanaric > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet
12/14/2014 at 20:32

Keep in mind grimspeed has a long history of making aftermarket parts. Like their boost solonoid for WRX is probably their hottest item for that car.

Xenti > chato
12/15/2014 at 08:19

I like warranties.

EvilSuperMonkey > elek
12/15/2014 at 09:51

Yeah, I'm guessing in this case they've barely broken even at this point. This will likely have barely covered R&D.

superhappyfuntime > elek
12/15/2014 at 10:00

This exactly. Most businesses try to operate within a 40% profit margin so they probably made around $40K in two days which will help out a lot, but not send the owner to Fiji on his new yatch.

Ghoulardi > rex
12/15/2014 at 10:00

The seal between the cooling fins and the plastic end-caps eventually fails on the stock Legacy GT's intercooler, even running stock boost. Mine started to experience blow-by at around 90K miles. I went with a stock replacement because the cost of another TMIC was just too steep. Had this been around at the time I would certainly have gone for this.

BeaterGT > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:00

So what you're telling me is...my Legacy GT needs this.

Tommy861 > signintoburnerlol
12/15/2014 at 10:00

We must be related. Doesn't matter how good the reviews are, every time I get the one thats DOA.

vgfgg > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:02

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———————————> www.jobs700.com

Axel-Ripper > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:02

Kinja'd!!!

Porn like weld this is not.

Vince P. > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:08

some like P*rnstars, others like amateurs :)

Davevq > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:10

$800 for an intercooler? Holy crap.

My upgraded intercooler for my Saab that fits in the stock location was a few hairs under $500 and was definitely 2.5 times the size of this thing.

oldirtybootz > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:11

I feel your pain. I missed out on a direct fit FMIC while it was available, and now I'm basically screwed on that front.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:13

I dabble in welding, in the electronics/machine shop for my lab. And as such I know a bad weld when I see one —> they look like MY welds. this is a SHIT weld because it looks like I did it.

Michael Zaite > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:14

Compared to crimped on plastic ends this is an AVN award winner.

timgray > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:15

The same happened in the BMW world. the BMW AWD transfer case has a major bonehead flaw, Das German Experts used a freaking plastic gear that strips out from 20,000 to 100,000 miles depending on use of the AWD system. BMW refused to offer the part but instead only offers the Actuator at $950. A small company here in the USA that manufactures speedo gears for GM/Ford/etc learned that BMW is refusing to sell the parts so they started making them. forthe first 2 years they were the only supplier for a repair and they made a killing. Now the china knockoffs are flooding ebay for 1/2 the price. Same will happen to these guys, a china company will pay attention to this buy one and copy the hell out of it at a $400 shipped price point.

Michael Zaite > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:15

So this just happened, meaning nobody has actually gotten and installed one yet. And probably none of them have been made yet. Here's hoping #140 is built as good as #1.

Raphmoe > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:22

that is one of the prototypes; but sure, it is easier to make fun of someone else than do it yourself. ;)

cream wobbly > timgray
12/15/2014 at 10:23

Then the proper way to do this is offshore manufacturing for version 2, then develop the next product in the States. Win/win.

borkborkborkbork69 > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:25

so it is still $902 (plus shipping I suppose) for a glorified radiator and that is at a 20% discount? how is this cheaper than the $1000 aussie unit (assuming you weren't in the "group")?

SchwarzeEwigkt > Vince P.
12/15/2014 at 10:25

Bad welds look bad. Porn sex may look good, but it isn't good sex.

ColonelKurtz > Raphmoe
12/15/2014 at 10:25

An ugly weld is an ugly weld.

RallyorDie > Ch0taku
12/15/2014 at 10:27

Process West for the win. I love mine also it allows me to run a Blouch Dom 1.5xtr without me having to swap out my intake manifold and such.

jeffywk > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:29

Woop woop, Minneapolis!

YellowDonuts > chato
12/15/2014 at 10:32

Holy...5H1Tballs, that's expensive. I'm glad that the TMIC solution for the MS3/MS6/CX-7 is only around $350-$600, depending on what you buy. The idea of spending so much for a smaller core than what's stock on the MS3/6/CX-7 is a frightening prospect.

chato > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:41

truth, the shot was more what I meant, not the actual welds. that's a preproduction prototype, and those welds caused quite an uproar on the forums actually.

Mary, Mary, Knotty Pine > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:43

My dad used to weld a lot and was teased mercilessly for the ugliness of his bead. But when it was time to take things apart people asked who welded it, if it wasn't my dad they used a sledge hammer, if my dad welded it they took it apart with a cutting torch.

H4N5 GRU83R > timgray
12/15/2014 at 10:45

So moral of the story is, find the demand and capitalize on it while you can, then on to the next project?

autothusiest > Mary, Mary, Knotty Pine
12/15/2014 at 10:51

Grandfather was the same way. Sure, he could make it look pretty as any top quality peice, but usually it was ugly but would never ever break/leak.

StevenG > timgray
12/15/2014 at 10:54

Which is why they should do that before anyone else can. First mover advantage.

Line up your chinese supplier and sell those as your cheap line, the USA made stuff as premium.

wilderthanthehate > Raphmoe
12/15/2014 at 10:56

do it yourself, also the production version will probably look better than this.

brian_nec > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 10:57

well its not done.

Snozzberry > timgray
12/15/2014 at 10:59

Plastic gear in a AWD system? What the what what?

BeauM > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 11:00

Looks better than the booger welds I lay down. Never tried aluminum though.

sklooner > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 11:03

Sometimes porn is messy

Old-Busted-Hotness > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo
12/15/2014 at 11:06

They'll make it Eventurially.

6SPD_soul, post pending > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet
12/15/2014 at 11:06

HAHAAH! I absolutely read "fuck darts" at first.

Tyler Z > chato
12/15/2014 at 11:30

I don't need to drop $800 on an intercooler for my stock-turbo ("stage 2") legacy gt, my stock one seems to do just fine, but I'm glad they're available.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > H4N5 GRU83R
12/15/2014 at 11:37

That's usually how it works in product development.
However the aftermarket performance parts business is a little different. Lots of people who will pay the premium for the well made stuff are out there. The people buying the later cut-rate stuff probably weren't your customers to begin with. The real competition that will drive down margins and sales are the other shops with good reputations. They'll come up with their own takes on it and many will be cheaper, not a lot cheaper, but enough to take business away.

kyle242gt > chato
12/15/2014 at 11:47

$839 for an intercooler? I'll take the Chinabay knockoff, thanks.

factsonly1 > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 12:14

I laughed

Ryan Stewart > timgray
12/15/2014 at 12:19

They will but usually with things like this GS will still get theirs sold. Its why most enthusiasts still look for Lemforder for mundane steering parts. Someone tried one of the Chinese knock offs and it fit poorly and failed quickly, bitching about it on all of the forums.

So on the forums it becomes an immediate "Try at your own risk" when someone brings up the knock offs. Then the only people buying the knock offs wouldnt have bought the original in the first place. The kids whose cars are covered in APC lights and stick on vents.

Ryan Stewart > Jimmy Joe Meeker
12/15/2014 at 12:20

This. It even stated in the article that the "shit" market was already there. If the Chinese could have put out a quality product at 1/3rd the price they would have.

These guys are going up against the "as mentioned" high-end kit from AUS.

GrimmSpeedTMIC > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 12:25

That's a single-pass weld on one of the very early pre-production units. It's actually the very first set of castings from the foundry and like any welded part, there's a learning curve to developing the best way to go about it. Refer to the product photo for what to expect from production parts.

get-nick > Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double
12/15/2014 at 12:26

My porn looks like shit too. because i know how bad my porns are, and this looks like i made it.

GLHNSLHT2 > chato
12/15/2014 at 12:26

You blew $849 and you still end up with a heat soaking problem. Could of had a nice front mount setup for a bit more or less if you search around and have some mechanical ability

Murmaider > GTRZILLAR32-Now saving for Godzilla and a condo
12/15/2014 at 12:47

How about the amp upgrade from BSW that, as far as i know, never showed. Quit paying attention after about two years.

icelandr > wabbalosthiskey
12/15/2014 at 12:54

The trouble is if that was the weak point that burst, what is now the weak point? Peak point would be best as a clamp or silicone tube rather than driveline/engine/intercooler.

AWelder > GrimmSpeedTMIC
12/15/2014 at 13:01

Don't bite on their comment baiting. If the temperature of a weld is right it can be ugly and do its job for a lifetime

DiHydro > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 13:03

What do you mean? It's rough, it's ugly, but it does the job. Sounds like pornstars to me!

chato > GLHNSLHT2
12/15/2014 at 13:09

FMIC's don't fit great with the turbo layout on the ej255's. you end up with mile of intercooler piping, mods to your bumper, most delete fog lights and often require relocation of the coolant overflow. unlike the factory unit, and most other aftermarket TMIC's, this one does not bolt directly to the turbo, but has a silicone coupler that will eliminate most of the heat soak issue currently found with other aftermarket units. It also adds the option of running STI or WRX/LGT style turbos because of that flexibility. Its pretty safe to assume that they didn't dupe 150 well educated enthusiasts on this one.

Prophet of hoon > chato
12/15/2014 at 13:38

which means that the next ship from China will have these on board for 29.95 with free shipping...

Prophet of hoon > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 13:41

No porosity, no overheated or sagged welds, no leaks... is it those cute dime on dime welds? no, but to rephrase, are they those cute dime-on-dime welds that leak? no again. Here's a rule for you, pretty welds aren't very strong. That weld, is fine because it has good penetration and no porosity. When you're building prototypes, you don't get the benefit of being able to run one continuous bead - which is absolutely necessary to make pretty welds.

Try not to talk out your ass again, you don't know shit.

Prophet of hoon > Raphmoe
12/15/2014 at 13:42

If he did it himself, he'd know that pretty is ugly when it comes to strength.

TheChafing > chato
12/15/2014 at 14:05

How many units is $129K worth of intercoolers?

About 100? I would think a handmade part like this would not be cheap - they certainly weren't on the MR2.

klurejr > chato
12/15/2014 at 14:08

Good for them! When the Factory Thermostat went out in my 2004 STI (Still the only original part to actually fail in the last 125k miles) I went with a Grimmspeed Thermo since they fail in the open position instead of the closed position - the way the stock one fails.

The new one from Grimmspeed failed in the first couple of weeks that I had it. I contacted them and had a free replacement shipped out to me the next day, this one has worked flawlessly for well over 80k miles now.

chato > TheChafing
12/15/2014 at 14:28

they're up to about 155 now.

Derpwagon > chato
12/15/2014 at 14:43

Grimmspeed is local to me, and I know several of the folks there. Good group of guys. I, of course, am one of these intercooler sales.

427zeo6 > chato
12/15/2014 at 14:46

Good for them! I applaud this method of marketing especially if they keep production in house and don't out source to Asia!

427zeo6 > GrimmSpeedTMIC
12/15/2014 at 14:48

My 1st priority would be a leak free weld, if the fillets aren't a perfect " stack of dimes " I'm OK with that as long as it lasts a good service life. GOOD JOB!

BrianMadigan > Axel-Ripper
12/15/2014 at 15:01

Unless it's the kind of porn where a dog shits on lady..

TheStigsGermanCousin > chato
12/15/2014 at 15:06

You can buy like 8 Versas for that

Stinger > Ryan Stewart
12/15/2014 at 17:23

As someone who's had multiple products get copied by overseas companies and sold for pennies. Now the Chinese have a new "template" to copy that will fit better than their previoius offerings...and it will be $199-$249.

Ch0taku > RallyorDie
12/15/2014 at 18:10

yea. also my friend told me pw is having a sale on their first gen tmic right now. since their new verticooler came out. i think either or is a good choice from GS or PW.

qqwweerrttyy > chato
12/15/2014 at 18:34

I'll never understand why Subaru went away from the Y-shaped intercooler design. Sure, it was a bitch to remove sometimes, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than compromising the design of the intake manifold.

JDIGGS > jshaw6000
12/15/2014 at 18:57

MC brace?

yeah I never thought I needed one until driving my sti at the track back to back with our s4. The sti was faster but I was surprised how great the audi brakes were since it was thunderhill, pretty high speed. The difference was while sti brembos are more capable by far, the half inch to inch of dead space created by the mater cylinder moving and flexing away from you when you brake causes them to be crappy to use. Basically nothing happens for the first inch of the brake pedal, and no matter how good your brakes are when you loose the time it takes to push the pedal that inch each time. At high speed the effect is even worse. I think the mbc is a great part, but you might want to be careful on say a super tight canyon road you decided to drive full out. Because it makes the brakes work faster they are more sensitive and I notice the car fusting with the abs in these situations more if I'm to unsmooth on the brakes while say hitting a big bump and cornering hard.

Axel-Ripper > GrimmSpeedTMIC
12/15/2014 at 18:58

Just busting chops. My welds would look about the same (Ok probably worse because casting).

GLHNSLHT2 > chato
12/15/2014 at 19:35

The heat soak comes from sitting right atop the engine. 143 is only 10% of the posts and 1% of views, probably pretty easy to find that #. Oh well to each they're own. After dealing with an engine bay mounted i/c I'll never do that again.

chato > GLHNSLHT2
12/15/2014 at 19:39

definitely some heatsoak from location, but I was referring specifically to the extreme heatsoak that comes from a metal-to-metal connection between the blazing hot turbo and the intercooler that plagues many of the current aftermarket options. this unit will use a silicon coupler system and it sits a bit further back in the engine bay, technically over the transmission, not the engine.

4wsprelude > Jimmy Joe Meeker
12/15/2014 at 20:37

Yes. I would gladly pay a premium if I don't have to do the same job twice.